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Will PCGS certify a Trade Dollar with chopmarks as MS?

CaptainRonCaptainRon Posts: 1,189 ✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Will PCGS certify a Trade Dollar with chopmarks as MS? If so what is the highest graded TD with chopmark(s)?

Is there a book out that discusses chopmarks, and what/whom many of the individual chopmarks represent, with pictures to cross referance.

Thanks
Ron
image

Comments

  • commoncents05commoncents05 Posts: 10,097 ✭✭✭
    Yes, PCGS will.

    -Paul
    Many Quality coins for sale at http://www.CommonCentsRareCoins.com
  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭
    Unfortunately, PCGS will slab these problem coins which display obvious and flagrant post mint damage.
  • ArizonadesertratArizonadesertrat Posts: 566 ✭
    The reference you are looking for is F. M. Rose, "Chopmarks" (1987). This thin paperback is out of print, but sometimes available from numismatic booksellers.
  • keojkeoj Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭
    A fabulous collection of Chop Marked trade dollars is the Legend Collection (TDN might know something about this). I've seen MS 64's graded by PCGS...I have yet to see a 65.

    keoj
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,262 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The highest I have seen are quite a few MS64's.
    Early Dollar Set
  • robkoolrobkool Posts: 5,934 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They certainly do... I myself own a 1875 s in a MS63 PCGS grade.
    Ebay items for sale Current BIN's / The Kingdom Collection
  • GoldenEyeNumismaticsGoldenEyeNumismatics Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Unfortunately, PCGS will slab these problem coins which display obvious and flagrant post mint damage. >>



    It's quite unfortunate too that they put into plastic some funky asian bullion too image

    No malice intended. image
  • Dog97Dog97 Posts: 7,874 ✭✭✭
    One would think that a chop is an obvious sign that the dollar has “circulated.”
    I never stopped to think that Morgans, Peace, Barbers and even flying Eagle Cents were chopped too, but they were
    The Rose book is fascinating with it’s ciphering & discussion of merchant’s & assayer’s chops, and an interesting read even if you do not collect those kinds of coins.

    Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
  • pmacpmac Posts: 3,189 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Unfortunately, PCGS will slab these problem coins which display obvious and flagrant post mint damage. >>


    This observation should be acknowledged by PCGS as the coin has obviously been in circulation. "Flagrant post mint damage" of this kind makes these coins interesting. They have done the job that the government has intentioned. The chop marks should be looked upon as a history of these coins in numismatics. Many of us collect coins to reflect the history they can tell.
    Paul
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have always been intrigued by these coins... and have added a chopped (and slabbed) trade dollar to my collection. I would like to acquire the Rose book... It would make a nice addition to my numismatic library. Cheers, RickO
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,062 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>One would think that a chop is an obvious sign that the dollar has “circulated.” >>



    What if there is no trace of wear?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • pmacpmac Posts: 3,189 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>One would think that a chop is an obvious sign that the dollar has “circulated.” >>



    What if there is no trace of wear? >>


    The chop mark is certainly a trace of wear.
    Paul
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,062 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>One would think that a chop is an obvious sign that the dollar has “circulated.” >>



    What if there is no trace of wear? >>


    The chop mark is certainly a trace of wear. >>



    Disagree. Is the "CAL." punched on the back of an 1848 $2 1/2 Liberty gold coin wear? Of course not.



    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭


    << <i>This observation should be acknowledged by PCGS as the coin has obviously been in circulation. "Flagrant post mint damage" of this kind makes these coins interesting. They have done the job that the government has intentioned. >>

    uh yeah, that "job" was TO CIRCULATE! which is exactly why it is absurd for pcgs or anyone to call any chop-marked trade dollar "uncirculated"



    << <i>Disagree. Is the "CAL." punched on the back of an 1848 $2 1/2 Liberty gold coin wear? Of course not. >>

    "cal" was counterpunched BY MINT OFFICIALS! not by chinese bureacrats. both are technically "post mint damage", but as long as the 1848 $2.5 stayed w/in the confines of the u.s. mint when counterstamped, then they can still be technically "uncirculated"

    K S
  • Dog97Dog97 Posts: 7,874 ✭✭✭
    Perry Hall I disagree with your disagreement because the Mint stamped CAL on the gold but didn't stamp chopmarks on coins.
    Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,062 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So if a chinese banker stamps a coin, it's a "trace of wear" but when the mint stamps a coin, it's not "a trace of wear"?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • Dog97Dog97 Posts: 7,874 ✭✭✭
    No, because the CAL was an intended design element installed while the coin was still in the press.
    Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,262 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i> which is exactly why it is absurd for pcgs or anyone to call any chop-marked trade dollar "uncirculated"
    >>



    They dont - they call it 'MS chopmarked'...a very distinct difference. Coins are graded on condition, not on absolutes. In this case, chopmarked trade dollars are graded ignoring the chopmark and then the chopmarked designation is added.

    In other words, there is no chopmarked trade dollar called 'uncirculated' by PCGS. There are, however, plenty of them called 'MS64 chopmarked'.
    Early Dollar Set
  • DDRDDR Posts: 1,642 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Rose book on chopmarks, which I highly recommend, is usually available on eBay as well.
    David
    Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
    Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I just purchased the Rose book... Cheers, RickO
  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭


    << <i>they call it 'MS chopmarked'...a very distinct difference. >>

    check your slabs again

    all the 1s i've seen, it says "PCGS MS-64" then ON THE NEXT LINE it says "chop mark"

    ie it's a grade ONLY one 1 line. on the next line is text mentioning the damage (chop mark)

    you'll see that other grade designators are on the SAME line as the grade, ie. "ms-64 dmpl" or "ms-64 rb".



    << <i>Coins are graded on condition, not on absolutes. >>

    that is correct. & a coin that is damaged because of circulation outside the mint where the damage is obvious is no longer in mint state condition

    K S
  • jmj3esqjmj3esq Posts: 5,421 ✭
    Amazingly they do. Not sure it makes any sence, though, considering the chop mark was not placed on the coin by the mint and the very punching of the mark inherently makes it not mint state.

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